Is Microsoft leaving .Net as a second class citizen again?


#1

I just read this:

which introduces the supposed “new platform” for Windows 10+ universal Windows apps, and, (tbh, unsurprisingly), there is no mention of “.NET” in the entire article.

Whatever the hell they mean by “superset of WinRT”, I’m definitely not interested. I want to keep my full .Net Framework, including WPF’s implementation of XAML, WCF, and everything in between for my Windows apps. I’m definitely not interested in having to migrate to a half-assed, half-baked, completely crippled framework and XAML implementation that does not even include the most basic stuff such as MarkupExtensions.

The Windows mobile and tablet story is totally non existent. The market is owned by other players such as Android and Apple, and there is absolutely no incentive for a .NET developer to even look at WinRT.

Is Microsoft just dropping the ball once again? They already tried to force WinRT down our throats when Windows 8 was released, and it was a total failure.

I’m no longer willing to tolerate Microsoft’s stupid teenage-like beefs between DevDiv and WinDiv. I’ve run completely out of patience here. I’m going to get Ubuntu and start developing for the JVM tomorrow (as crappy and retarded as it might be) unless someone officially clarifies and presents me a clear, bright future for .NET where Microsoft are embracing it instead of their worthless “win rt” stuff no one gives a damn about.

(BTW, sorry for the rant, I feel like I’m being totally left behind again, and this is very enraging)


#2

I have just started a Windows 8 Store app (WinRT) and it uses a Xaml with WCF stack though you can use JS + Html5 stack . This is not just the mobile market its Windows8 and Windows10.

Despite the terms to me it reads as .Net is basically being replaced in the longer term by core. It will be maintained but at a slower rate … eg Entity Framework 7 is released for Core.

.NET has fundamental flaws MS cant fix without revolutionary change and that is core.

I also think Windows desktop / win 32 will have issues .In future Microsoft has no benefit in keeping this relic alive for non servers.

Note Microsoft are not forcing you – its your choice . eg you can still use remoting and winforms if you want.

I use the JVM a lot and it as a client platform is even more dead…especially with the security issues . Its a good server platform with axis . The future in Java client is not rosy at all i invested a lot of time in Swing.

Your choice for clients in future is basically C++/QML , HTML5/ JS or Xaml with .Net core . Im moving towards Single page apps with Html5/CSS with angular which is also natively supported by RT but means im not tied to a propriety standard ( and it renders a LOT faster).

Winrt is a GOOD thing , its far more secure and reliable - and a winrt system is about the only thing i will do internet banking on.


#3

If WinRT is the future, we’re all doomed. Don’t make up excuses for that bastard child. .NET full has everything one needs to write proper apps.


#4

Without a capability security model win32 is doomed also. Its not about .NET vs Core its about the death of the underlying platform which full .NEt depends on.

Im quite happy with 8.1 Windows Store apps the things it doesnt allow were dirty and evil anyway.


#5

I think many of us won’t mind if .NET full is based on WinRT/Win32’s successor as it’s abstracted away anyway. The main point is (at least was till now, it’s unclear what Win10 brings) that writing apps for WinRT isn’t really .NET, it’s something else, meaning one has to leave .NET full for something else. Whether that in the end will grow into something similar to what we have on .NET full today is to be seen.


#6

I’m interested to know more about these flaws, can you elaborate please…


#7

Hello @HighCore,

I read the article that you sent. Lacey said the UAP “is a versioned collection of versioned contracts,”. I think this will be, more or less, equal to Portable Libraries.


#8

I would second that WinRT is really a disappointment, both in vision and implementation. .NET is pretty incredible. It’s amazing that anyone would try to deviate from it, especially when providing a replacement that isn’t nearly as powerful and/or useful (and as a result FUN!) as what it is replacing.

With that said, I am definitely interested in the future of Core, especially if it means we do not have to deviate/fragment yet another time from its vision. It would be nice/ideal to stick with a technology stack and really have it grow/mature into something incredible… sort of like Silverlight5 before the rug got pulled out from under it. :innocent:


#9

Read all the core development threads… for a start ,

  1. Faulty security model with high ambient authority especial IO ( Java runtime !)
  2. Cant deploy small releases
  3. Cant deliver change which is why there are so many frameworks ( Standard , Compact , Micro , Windows phone 7 , Windows Store 8 , Silverlight etc etc )
  4. Changes in architecture eg predicates replaced with expressions , likewise generics. Some of these faults are in core for compatibility reasons … sigh,
  5. Debugger uses a different method again , cant debug expressions / LINQ.
  6. Some reflection does not work with new Binary compilation and code protection ( including auto parallelization)
    etc

Ben


#10

Dont confuse winrt with the Arm platform … open a store app and try to develop its different but most things still work .

Id say with core - the standard framework is getting the rug pulled… eg New code will be provided for Core first eg Entity Framework 7 . Being 2nd is a death sentence for software.


#11

It’s the “some things” that don’t work with WinRT that is seriously hindering it, though. Lack of markup extensions is pretty significant, especially when they are trying to win over Silverlight/WPF developers.

I have no problem switching over to Core. From the looks of it, MSFT finally got it right. So any .NET Core investments appear to be good for a substantial amount of time. I’m OK with the jump from traditional .NET if that is the case. Just make sure to at least get markup extensions and Xaml serialization right. Fundamentals! :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, I’m afraid I’m a little lost when you say “Arm platform.” Do you mean “Store” apps? Or vNext? Or…?


#12

There is Windows RT which is the OS that ran on the Windows Surface RT ARM based machines and WinRT AKA Windows Runtime. It is the default API used by Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.


#13

Ah! Yes, of course. Thank you for the clarification. I guess I should be saying “Universal Apps API” as that was the latest release (and is still missing key basic functionality like markup extensions) for both Windows and Phone 8.1.


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